By Jennifer Toomer-Cook
Deseret News staff writer

Groups pushing a citizens initiative to remove legally concealed guns from churches and schools aren’t too upset that lawmakers shot down legislation with a similar target.
In fact, some said Tuesday’s House Education Standing Committee action may add momentum to their effort to let voters, dubbed “the silent majority” by Utah Education Association president Phyllis Sorensen, decide the issue in November. Utah PTA and school officials agree.
“By preventing any kind of reasonable legislation from going forward, that lends support to the idea there’s no way the Legislature will ever act,” said Doug Bates, director of school law and legislation for the state Office of Education.
“Bring it on,” gun rights advocates indicate. Winton Clark Aposhian of the Utah Self Defense Instructors Network says an educated public won’t support the initiative, which targets upstanding citizens with no desire to become “gun-toting Rambos.” He says existing laws adequately address gun crimes in schools.
“I would love to put it to the vote of the people,” he said. “This entire situation is serving to educate the public . . . and we stand on our record.”
Facing a room packed with more than 100 residents ? mostly gun-rights advocates ? the committee voted 7-6 to table HB248, sponsored by House Minority Leader Dave Jones, D-Salt Lake. The bill is similar to the citizens petition, though the petition would make colleges gun-free zones, too.
The bill failed along party lines, with the exception of the committee chairmen, Reps. Ron Bigelow, R-West Valley, and Lloyd Frandsen, R-South Jordan, who voted to keep the bill alive.
Bigelow said that as a lay minister, he would not want guns in his church. He also defended fellow lawmakers, however they voted.
“I am not aware of any legislator in the state of Utah that does not place the safety of children as the utmost importance,” Bigelow said. The issue is “how that can properly be done.”
Jones’ bill sought to take the burden off homeowners and churches to tell visitors they can’t bring their guns inside, requiring concealed weapons permit holders to ask permission instead.
Catholic and Episcopal church officials support the idea. But not Tom Corkish, pastor of Anchor Baptist Church in Salt Lake. He says the bill “discourages worshipers who need self-protection” and forces clergy to become policemen.
The bill also sought to ban concealed weapons permit holders from toting guns into public or private schools, though principals could make exceptions, such as for stalking victims. Concealed weapon permit holders would have been able to carry guns in parking lots, streets or sidewalks next to school property. Law enforcement officers would be exempt.
“My bringing this bill forward does not suggest concealed weapon permit holders are criminals,” Jones said, adding the bill is about safety, not crime.
“I think what you have to ask yourself is, if you’re a parent, does it make you feel more comfortable if there’s a loaded weapon (in class)?” he said. “I think the vast majority of Utahns will answer, ‘No.’ “
But Janalee Tobias, founder of Women Against Gun Control, indicated schools would be sitting ducks if criminals knew no guns were inside. Treat the situation like a good poker hand and bluff instead, she said, challenging Jones to a game of “strip-poker” in an apparent attempt to illustrate her point.
“You don’t want to tell where the guns aren’t,” she said.
Gov. Mike Leavitt has repeatedly urged lawmakers to tackle the guns in schools and churches issue. While gun restriction bills have been filed, those addressing that issue are not included in the GOP crime-fighting package.
Senate President Lane Beattie, R-West Bountiful, however, is carrying two bills. One would require concealed weapon permit holders to notify the principal when bringing a firearm into a public school, although the principal could not ask the person to leave or reveal to others the gun carrier is on school grounds. The other requires the legal gun carrier to notify a church official, who could tell the gun-toter to leave.
While Beattie has said the bills strike a compromise between gun-rights and gun-control advocates, school officials have said they don’t go far enough.
Jones hopes to amend those bills to include some of his own, if they make it to the House floor. “Now, the venue moves,” he said.